Attorney Says Unedited Versions of the Oklahoma City Bombing Surveillance Tapes Are ‘Somewhere’

Copyright © 2009 Bob McCarty.  All rights reserved.  Reprint permission required.

By Bob McCarty at

No Question... 9-29-09“Someday, somewhere, somebody is going to have the guts to release that stuff,” said David P. Schippers, speaking to me by phone from his office in downtown Chicago Tuesday afternoon.

The “stuff” to which Schippers was referring is surveillance-camera footage recorded in downtown Oklahoma City on the morning of April 19, 1995, prior to the truck-bomb explosion that killed 168 people at 9:02 a.m. Central.  It’s the same footage the FBI failed to release along with post-blast footage in response to a Freedom of Information Act request submitted by Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue and highlighted in a article published Sunday.

Who is David P. Schippers?

If you recognize his name, chances are it’s because of the notoriety he received while serving as chief investigative counsel for the U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee during the Clinton Impeachment Hearing.  Likewise, it could be that you know him as the author of the book, “SELLOUT: The Inside Story of President Clinton’s Impeachment.”

I was introduced to the 70-something Chicago-based attorney by Jayna Davis, author of the book, The Third Terrorist, which chronicled her decade-long investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing and became a New York Times Best Seller.  Some 30 years his junior, Davis considers Schippers a close personal friend and something of a father figure.  Moreover, she trusts and respects him — so much so, in fact, that she had him write the foreword for her book.

Barely 24 hours after publishing a series of three copyrighted posts containing never-before-published information about Davis’ investigation of the bombing, I had the opportunity to interview Schipper for almost an hour.  And he did not disappoint.

Implicating Presidents

I began the interview by asking Schippers why no one had pursued Hussain Al-Hussaini, the Iraqi native Davis identified in her book as the third terrorist who, along with Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, carried out the attack?

“My honest opinion is that the original shot was made by (President Bill) Clinton in 1995,” he explained.  “Remember, it was 1995, and he had lost the congress — both houses of Congress — and people were saying he would never get reelected, and his numbers were way the hell down.

“If he had had another attack against the United States, he would have had to act, and he didn’t do a damn thing on the first Twin Towers bombing,” he continued.  “Clinton said, ‘Let’s not overreact,’ and, at that time, we had the Department of Justice with (Janet) Reno in there who was completely politicized, and I think (Clinton) just decided we’re not going to do it.”

Schippers continued, “riding” a bipartisan train of thought.

“Now, why didn’t the (President George W.) Bush people do it?” he asked rhetorically.  “That’s the one that really bothered me.  We deliberately waited until Reno and that gang got out of the administration and then Bush came in.”

Unfortunately, no one ever bit on the information Schippers said a president could have used as a legitimate reason to invade Iraq, and he blames it on a pact between the Bushes and Clintons — something akin to the mutually-assured destruction mindset that prevailed during the Cold War between Russia and the United States.

“I’m convinced that both sides know that if they blow the other up, they’re both going to get it,” he said.

He didn’t stop there.

“Now, why aren’t these people (in the Obama Administration) doing anything about it?” he asked.  “Because they’re not doing a (expletive) thing about anything!”

‘The Unedited Versions are Somewhere’

Asked whether he thinks anyone still has copies of the pre-explosion surveillance-camera videotapes, he said, “The answer is ‘yes.’”

“I maintain that those tapes were edited, and there’s no question about it,” he said, referring to the tapes the FBI released to Trentadue.  “They were edited.  That means the unedited versions are somewhere, and that’s the key.  I think the FBI still has all of those tapes, and I don’t think we’re ever going to see ‘em.”

Why?  He explained without prompting.

“I’ve lost all faith in the Department of Justice,” he said.  “I’ve lost all faith in anything in Washington.”

Proof in a Wanted Poster?

John Doe 2 Profile

Amidst a pause, Schippers turned the table on the interviewer and asked how many times I had seen sketches of suspects on wanted posters.  I told him I had seen them often.

Then he asked, “Have you ever seen a profile?”  I said I had not, and he continued.

“Do you know why the drawing of the guy was a profile?  Because they took it off the tape,” he explained.  “That’s where it came from.  You never see a profile.  It’s always a front view.”

Except in this case.

Schippers said he talked to the people in Oklahoma City who gave the FBI information and that there is no question in his mind — and in Jayna’s mind — that the side view of Hussain Al-Hussaini bears a more-than-striking resemblance to the profile sketch of John Doe 2.

It’s likely, according to Davis’ law enforcement sources who she cannot name in order to protect them, the sketch was taken from the missing surveillance tape footage.

“Why would you edit tapes unless there was something on there that’s gonna blow you sky high?” he asked, his voice animated over the phone line.  “What’s on there, on those tapes that they showed, that they gave this guy?  It was either Hussain Al-Hussaini — he was the passenger — or just a Ryder truck with unidentified people in it.

“But that picture with the side view of him was so obvious that it was taken from the passenger side and that was him sitting in the front seat.”

The One Thing He Wanted to Share

Asked what one thing he would share with the world about the matter of the missing pre-attack surveillance-camera footage from downtown OKC, Schippers pulled no punches.

“It would be that there is absolutely no question that those tapes existed and, if those tapes ever came forward, they would show conclusively that there was an Iraqi connection to the bombing and that there was an Iraqi sitting in the passenger seat of that truck as it pulled up to the Murrah building and that there was an Iraqi who jumped out with McVeigh and ran like hell.”

“There’s a reason they’re not releasing it,” he continued.  “There were two cameras in one place.   They released (footage from) one that shows a hazy picture of a Ryder truck going by.  The other one would have been in such a position as to show everything about it — who’s in the front seat, the whole works.  And that’s the one that hasn’t surfaced.”

While his high-profile work on Capitol Hill was important, Schippers said he would “without question” prefer to be remembered for his work with Davis rather than his involvement with the impeachment of a president.

“I’d take Jayna anytime.”

Copyright © 2009 Bob McCarty.  All rights reserved.  Reprint permission required.

19 thoughts on “Attorney Says Unedited Versions of the Oklahoma City Bombing Surveillance Tapes Are ‘Somewhere’

  1. Pingback: » Attorney Says Unedited Versions of the Oklahoma City Bombing Surveillance Tapes Are ‘Somewhere’ Where liberty dwells, there is my country…

  2. Pingback: UPDATED: Was There an Iraqi Connection to the OK City Bombing? : The Pink Flamingo

  3. Bob,
    Impressive, thought-provoking interview with Mr. Schippers. Makes me want to read that book by his friend.

    Here are some random thoughts I jotted down based on an email you and I exchanged where the topic was this same interview you had with Schippers. I am more impressed with my comments now that I have read the interview. It seems I was spot on with the sentiments and facts Mr. Schippers discussed. There are more things that will surely come out as time passes.

    There have always been questions that have gone unanswered about the OKC bombing. It may well be that foreign powers had their hands in the thing, too. In fact, early reports (only hours after the event) seemed to point in that direction. (I see Mr. Schippers clearly believes this, too.)

    It has been convenient for our government to under report much that happens in our various cities. Just recently, there seems to be a rash of “little” attempts to cause trouble from foreign radicals. Mostly, these reports pass through the minds of the American people with only casual interest or thought. Nothing big happened, so it is of no consequence. That seems to be the attitude of the press and people.

    You know, if the FBI had arrested the 911 bombers before they did their dirty deeds, their plot would have been laughable. Not many would have imagined that box cutters could be used to reign down that much destruction in New York.

    The Bible says it is the little foxes that spoil the vines. Another place, “Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!” Little things have a way of building into much larger matters.

    A box cutter can bring down an airplane, an airplane can bring down a building full of people. An angered nation can bring down a foreign empire.

    Now we elect a man with a name like Barack Obama who holds limited credentials and questionable associates.

    Who knows what might be behind a “little” edited tape? Who knows what “little” thing this present president might kindle? Strange times we live in. We are surely playing with strange fire. And Obama has loosed a bunch of “little foxes” on the tender vines of America. We are hearing a stirring, though it be small in number, among a diverse smattering of people complaining of our president. From the left, Gore Vidal (America might soon have a dictatorship), from the right, singer, Andy Williams opines that we are headed toward Socialism. Even some writers are noticing the president might be an empty suit (my words).

    Fox News is, by far, the most vocal and is consistently sounding the warning bells, but here and there are others who are making a noise. It is remembered Nero fiddled while Rome burned (fiddle was not yet invented); Obama flies to Copenhagen to meet with Oprah while our war in Afghanistan flounders.

    We have a nation’s capitol full of fiddles now and the entire congress is tuning their instruments. Little fires are springing up all over the place. Obama’s fire department tankers are filled with gasoline instead of water. The weary man in the street is told over and over our main concern is health care. That after the take over of our banking system, our automobile production base, charismatic assault on our school children, the Social Security system on verge of bankruptcy. I am fearful for our country.

    Surely the coming of the Lord must be near. We can only pray that He comes soon. Thanks, Bob, for this timely review and interview.

  4. Very interesting article.

    Even though I agree that the tapes were likely edited in order that information about the OKC bombing inconsistent with the story sold to the public would not be disclosed, I’m very dubious that Iraq had anything to do with it.

    Not a shred of other evidence to back up Iraqi involvement was put forward, either. Some guy who was there and may have been caught on surveillance video may have had a “middle eastern” appearance. Yeah, so what? To jump from that to involvement by Iraq is a pretty big leap.

  5. Pingback: Oklahoma city lawyers | Oklahoma City Lawyers

  6. Pingback: The Progressive Mind » Attorney Says Unedited Versions of the Oklahoma City Bombing Surveillance Tapes Are ‘Somewhere’ | Bob McCarty Writes

  7. Sincere question here. Apparently conservatives see the suppression of information in OKC. So why aren’t you worried about more recent shenanigans perpetrated by Bush/Cheney.

  8. Pingback: » Oklahoma City Bombing Videotapes Subject of Federal Court Hearing in Salt Lake City May 11 - Big Government

  9. Pingback: Oklahoma City Bombing Videotapes Subject of Federal Court Hearing in Salt Lake City May 11 | Conservatives for America

  10. Pingback: Oklahoma City Bombing Videotapes Subject of Federal Court Hearing in Salt Lake City May 11

  11. Pingback: Oklahoma City Bombing Videotapes Subject of Federal Court Hearing in Salt Lake City May 11 | We Are Change Utah

  12. I read Ms. Davis’ book as soon as it came out…several years ago. I encourage anyone who is interested in this cover-up to get the book and find out for yourself what Ms. Davis reported and what we need to know about what was NOT revealed. It’s very much worth your time.

  13. The History Channel made a 9 part series about the Assassination of President Kennedy.
    The last show in the series was called THE GUILTY MEN.
    It details the evidence for President Kennedy being assassinated by the FBI.
    After becoming the most popular show in the series the History Channel pulled it off the air and refuse to sell it.
    Google the guilty men jfk youtube
    and watch the 45 minute version or click here to watch it
    In 1999 the Martin Luther King family sued one of the assassins of Martin Luther King in civil court. They did this because the department of justice would not reopen the investigation after the Martin Luther King family uncovered evidence that the FBI, CIA, and Memphis police had assassinated Dr King. The King family also wanted to enter their evidence into a public record so it could be accessed.The jury returned a verdict in favor of the King family and juror members held a press conference saying it was a clear cut case of the FBI assassinating Dr King. There was a media blackout of the trial. Details of the trial can be viewed here or by reading the book called ACT OF STATE THE EXECUTION OF Martin Luther King
    written by the trial attorney William Pepper.

  14. Pingback: THE CLAPPER MEMO Receives Third Major Endorsement |

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>